“This week, Labour's proposed ban on conversion therapy is facing fresh criticism over fears it could criminalise parents for challenging their children's gender identity. A new poll found support for the bill, more than halves if parents could face prosecution for refusing opposite-sex pronouns or blocking medical transition. Parents could face up to five years in prison under the proposed legislation, and critics warn the legislation fails to distinguish between abuse and responsible parenting. And at a parliamentary hearing this week, Sex Matters director Helen Joyce warned the bill fails to distinguish between abuse and responsible parenting. And the important thing to remember as well, as this bill makes no distinction whatsoever between adults and children. Oh, if my husband takes my phone away from me because he doesn't want me contacting people, that's coercive control. If I do that to my child, that may be responsible parenting. Brilliant point. Well, joining me now is the Director of Advocacy at Sex Matters, Helen Joyce. Thank you. Watching those clips this week was maddening because it just laid out so clearly how dangerous this bill is. Imagine you've been thinking about this now for a couple of years. Various people have been trying to bring through conversion practices bans. So the previous government said it was going to, and then it looked into it and it realised that, you know, basically nearly everything that should be criminalised already is. And if you try and catch the last little bit of it, you're going to end up creating something that's a monster that's going to get people who shouldn't be criminalised. Unfortunately, this government offered it as a manifesto pledge, and it has brought through this draft bill, and it's now looking at it in pre-legislative scrutiny, which means it set up a committee of peers and MPs, and for 12 weeks they are looking at it and having oral hearings. So I was one of the people who was invited to the first hearing. That was last Thursday. And honestly, trying to get into, you know, we prepped beforehand. There were three of us on this panel. We were told we had about 50 minutes, and, you know, they ask questions as well, and we had to practice trying to get our points down to like 90 seconds, because everything is wrong with it. Everything. Like, you want to say, like, where do I start? I mean, basically the idea is this, that, like, historically speaking, back in the 1960s and 70s, people tried to turn gay people straight.”